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HAM DNA Group # 4

  Y-SEARCH Study for the HAM Surname DNA Project

This Group has been tested as I1b (I-M170)

    GOAL:   To determine the possible ancestral origins for the HAM DNA Group # 4.

Date:      December  9,  2007
Updated menus and haplotype group May, 2018
Removed defunct YSearch links Dec 13, 2022

Perform a Y-Search in order to determine the possible ancestral origins for the HAM DNA Group # 4.


        There have not been enough participants in Group #4 for an Ancestral procedure, so a simple Y-Search study has been performed here.

Step 1:  Search the Y-SEARCH Database (now defunct www.ysearch.org) for matches to this "HAM DNA AGroup # 4" Haplotype:

The results:    Group #4 Y-Search DNA Distribution (matches) throughout Europe

        Group #4 matches in England
        Group #4 matches in Ireland
        Group #4 matches in Scotland
        Group #4 matches in Germany

                                                                                                          Group 004


    To determine the possible ancestral origins for the HAM DNA Group #4.


    5) Search the Y-Search database for matches to the ancestral haplotype.
         - From this search, report out the percentage matches that do NOT exist in the US.

These results could then be used to provide some guidance for locating ancestors in future research.

Step 1:

    Search the YSEARCH Database (www.ysearch.org no longer exists) for matches to this "HAM DNA Group 4" Haplotype:

47412    Richard HAM (Est 1660 England - BEF 1726 VA)    I1b
    13    23    15    11    12    14    11    13    13    12    11    29    18    10    10    11    11    25    15    21    29    11    16    16    17

In effect, we are looking for the location to match this Group # 4 to the immigrant ancestor across the Atlantic.

Matching entered genetic markers on at least 15 markers, allowing a genetic distance of 1 per marker matched above 10
I am looking for about 1500 matches, in an effort to improve the statistics.  The search returned about 1000 matches.

This Y-Search on the "Ancestral" Haplotype, and got a search that yielded 1025 matches.

I then searched through these matches for all of the "known" and NON-USA matches, and tallied up the totals (494 were non-USA), then worked out percentages of where this "Ancestral" Haplotype should be found in the world.

The results:

Group #4 Ancestral DNA Distribution (matches) throughout Europe

1025 matches obtained.
494 returned a Country other than the US or "unknown"


England        197           39.9 %
Ireland             80           16.2 %
Scotland         79           16.2 %
Germany         43             8.8 %
France             18             3.7 %
Wales               18             3.7 %
Switzerland    11             2.2 %
Poland               8             1.6 %
Netherlands     8             1.6 %
Bahamas           4             0.8 %
Canada              4             0.8 %
Mexico               4             0.8 %
Spain                 3              0.6 %
Ukraine             3              0.6 %
Norway             2              0.4 %

OTHER (less than 0.5 % each):        8

Belarus          1
Czech             1
Israel               1
Russia            1
Serbia             1
Sicily               1
Sweden          1
Turkey            1

Presuming that we could determine something from these totals, I would guess that this group should be found mostly in England, with smaller portions from Ireland and Scotland. It would appear that they should be twice as likely to be from England than from either Ireland or Scotland, and over 4 times as likely to be from England than from Germany.

The problem that I am observing is the Genetic Distance, which appears to be larger than I would have wanted it to be. (Given the current search options from YSearch, I did not permit more than one mutation per marker, in an attempt to obtain some meaningful results. ) It has occurred to me that the search may have to be repeated or corrected.

Therefore, I did repeat the search (original search was in January, 2007) with a return of 1916 matches, which gave about the same percentages. However, the January search was of lower quality, only searching for matches on 8 markers. Although the general percentages remained the same, but the specific percentages changed somewhat (for specific locations).  Today, the Y-Search database is reflecting improved data from an increase in the number of participants.

Very similar results as Group #2 ( R1b1c ), until the list falls below England, Ireland, Scotland, and Germany.
At the moment, we have no participants in Group 4 that can indicate the immigrant ancestor with any certainty, but he is presumed to have immigrated from England, since Virginia was a colony of England.

More differences from Group #4 appear when the distribution is listed within each country (below).

It is interesting that for these countries, many give city or county locations.  It is almost as if I could see how many locations are in common for the majority matching in England, Ireland, or Scotland, for example.


From the totals that I have for England, and without going to very much trouble of attempting to determine the name of the County for the cities, I get a rough account of the results that look something like this:

County Worcester (or Worcestershire)    12     (Not applicable, as all from Worcestershire indicated haplotype R1b1c, as opposed to I1b.)
Kent                          8
Suffolk                      7
London                    5
Yorkshire                 4
Cornwall                  4

others (less than 4 each):            18

Of those that matched Worcestershire, these were matches to the R1b1c haplotype, similar to our HAM DNA Group # 2.  The HAM DNA Group # 4 here is tested out as I1b.  So, I did not exclude other indicated haplotypes (R1a, R1b3, etc.) from this particular search.  This indicates to me that this search will need to be refreshed as the data becomes available.

It is apparent that from the locations in England, the most likely locations of origin should be closely matched by Kent, followed next by  Suffolk, London, Yorkshire, Cornwall, and so on.  Group #4 appears to be distributed widely in England among at least the top 5  locations. 

You can find a map of English Shires from the 10th century at:



From the results for Ireland, the obvious appears to be Northern Ireland.  County Cork and County Down having the largest totals.

The more significant totals as I have them:

Northern Ireland             (9)

County Cork          6
County Down        6
Cavan                      3
Ulster                       3

Notice that the total matching for Northern Ireland match what we might expect from Worcestershire or Kent in England.


The more significant totals as I have them for Scotland:

Dumfries                3
Inverness-shire    3
Glasgow, Lanarkshire   3
Midlothian              3
Edinburgh, Midlothian     3
Perthshire              3
Aberdeen               2
Isle of Mull, Argyllshire     2
Shetland Isles       2


Hesse/Hessen                   5
Schlochau, WPR               3
Baden                               2

 - Dave Hamm    Dec 9th, 2007